Help! Any Plumbing Oppos??

"Takuro Spirit" (takurospirit) 05/11/2018 at 10:50 • Filed to: Houselopnik, plumbing, plumbinglopnik, shit stink, poop stink, sewer stink

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So we moved into this house, and it has a lift pump for JUST the washer standpipe and water softener, and it pumps into the existing plumbing somewhere then out to the city sewer.

The plumbing setup

I’ve never had or lived in a house with this setup, and I’m still learning how it works.

Nevermind how close the NON-GFCI outlet is to the standpipe, I’m not using it

It seems that the standpipe enters the crock through the pipe on the left, which is also vented, and connects to the vent pipe coming out the top of the crock on the left.

Vent routing, it crosses to the left then up into oblivion... hopefully the roof

The right is the grey water exit from the pump, with a one-way valve that empties into a pipe in the rafters, hidden by insulation and drop ceiling.

Professionally cord wrapped water outlet that probably leads to the rest of the plumbing... somewhere

I assume it empties into the iron waste pipes near the front of the house, covered by wall, but the clean out is accessible through this handy ‘vent’.

Hi, hopefully sealed non-leaking Iron Giant

So, the issue.... when we run the first load of laundry after not using it for a week, we get a STRONG SMELL OF METHANE/SEWER in the basement.

It is hard to trace, because it hasn’t happened EVERY time we run the washer after a week, or the water softener cycles. By then the whole basement smells, and after being down there for ~30 seconds, I get used to the smell and can’t find its source. It happened the day after we moved in and I ran a load of laundry, and it happened last night. Last week - no steenk.

In my searching around online I think the cause is sewer gasses coming from the crock cover, which isn’t solid, and appears to have a crack in it.

Not sure if pressboard.... plastic.... gonna caulk the shit outta it

I read that ‘caulking the shit’ out of the cover might help, and I’m going to start there tonight, but I was wondering if the way the vent is run is also an issue. Should it be run off the standpipe the way it is (second image) or just off the crock?

Is it possible the gas is escaping ELSEWHERE in the piping, but is only affected with the laundry standpipe/lift pump?

I’m gonna start pulling down the ceiling if the caulk doesn’t help, but not being a plumbing expert I was wondering if anyone else sees something I can’t.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 11:02

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I don’t know that caulking the crock is that great an idea, because while I think you’re right that stank air is escaping from the cover, that would mostly be because the vent setup is less than idea. Water is dumping into the crock and forcing air out of it, rather than said air going back up the pipe and out the vent. Maybe caulking the cover will force the air to take a more convenient path (up the pipe), but it might depend on if the pipe is submerged when running a load of laundry or the like.

It doesn’t matter how well the standpipe’s vent works if this is happening:

Water level going up, no “burping” of air up the standpipe, air instead just goes through the cover.

If the standpipe is never getting submerged and is fine, then caulking may work. May.

I’m not familiar with these setups, but I’m trying to apply some basic greek fountain type logic to the whole thing.

PartyPooper2012 > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 11:04

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im not expert, but here is a thought.

Your washing machine drains into that vertical pipe. There is not a trap there. If gasses exist in the well area, they are free to escape through this plumbing. Maybe you need a trap? Maybe you don’t. I don’t know. Run in there quickly and smell that pipe where washing machine drains into and see if there is a smell.

Methane/sewer smell is not really same as washing machine water smell so I don’t think one has to do with the other unless you have some toilet/kitchen stuff also going in there.

If you decide to put a trap, put it in the horizontal run you have there.

Takuro Spirit > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/11/2018 at 11:07

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I might try to remove the cover (without breaking anything, wish me luck) to see what the situation is inside before caulking. Good call!

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 11:07

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From my limited experience with these (one house I lived in several years ago had on) the vent pipe needs to exit outside the house. It’s job is to send the off gases outside the house.

Takuro Spirit > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 05/11/2018 at 11:09

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Right. So instead of going out the vent its entering the basement. I just gotta figure out where...

Assuming the vent is working, and after the first load of laundry, it IS.

Takuro Spirit > PartyPooper2012 05/11/2018 at 11:11

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There is a trap, its hard to see. Its right where the standpipe goes horizontal and enters the vent/drain.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > PartyPooper2012 05/11/2018 at 11:12

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I think what he’s smelling is the somewhat putrid smell that comes from washing machine water that has stayed sitting for a while. The smell that one gets when draining the bottom dregs out of a front-loader for service, which is more or less the same as the smell of a bathroom sink trap. Decomposing soap or detergent, hair, and the like, in other words.

It’s pretty normal for a laundry room drain setup to not have a trap on the washing machine, so I kind of doubt that’s his problem. It’s all closed up, more so than most washing machine setups are, and he actually *does* have a common trap there, shared with the water softener.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 11:14

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I misread it initially, missed that the actual line filling the crock was on the left and not the same pipe as the vent. Didn’t realize that the crock in theory has its own vent. However, the same question applies as to whether the vent is actually working as a vent.

Who knows, it could be at an appropriate height but have a mouse nest in it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 11:23

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after the first load of laundry, it IS.

My mean-spirited and somewhat pessimistic take is that it might actually not be. That the smell comes mainly from water that has sat in the hole accumulating stank, and once the first load has been run, air is still escaping, but just off less stank-ridden water. That, and that the first stank has desensitized the nose.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 11:31

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If it’s from the first load of wash, it’s likely just the funk smell from the washer pump from the old water left in the pump after the last wash. Our front loader will stink to high hell when we run our first wash after a couple days of no laundry.

Try pulling the washer discharge out of the wall and into a bucket or something and see if the smell is from that. Be careful though as you’ll fill the bucket quickly and be ready to shut off the washer as it fills after it starts to pump out of the wash basin.

That’s my bet right there. If you had sewer gas leaking, you’d have the smell all the time. I think it’s just a smelly washer.

punkgoose17 > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 11:32

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Your drain trap is too shallow. After you do not run the washer for a while there is not enough water there to keep methane from burping up the tube when the water starts flowing in and stops flowing in. When the water is running some sewer gas will get pulled down the vent pipe from the venturi effect and if the drain trap does not have enough water and is sloshing in and out you will get some sewer gases burping out. Also, check your vent like “My X-type” said.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/11/2018 at 11:33

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Exactly.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/11/2018 at 11:34

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That water that sits in the discharge line gets funky quick.

Takuro Spirit > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/11/2018 at 11:43

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The first time it happened I got used to the smell when down there, but after going back upstairs and down again, I could smell it as strongly as before.

Same with last night.

If the smell was still there after the 2nd, 3rd, or 5th load I would have noticed. Or if it was there at all last weekend when I did laundry. Curiously there was no smell so I labeled it as a fluke and moved on.

Until last night.

There is a musty basement smell that persists down there, and THAT might be the less-stank water in the crock.

Takuro Spirit > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 05/11/2018 at 11:44

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Its not the washer, we had the same one at the old house, but draining into a sink in the basement. No smell there.

Takuro Spirit > punkgoose17 05/11/2018 at 11:45

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This. This makes sense.

crowmolly > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 11:52

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I think your trap is not doing its job and the gas is escaping back out the open washer connection.

Takuro Spirit > crowmolly 05/11/2018 at 11:53

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I’m gonna buy a lot of caulk.....

And yeah, its been pointed out that trap may not be deep enough. If the caulk doesn’t do it 100% the trap will be replaced next.

Me and PVC get along pretty well.

It will also give me an excuse to relocate the standpipe away from the outlet a little more.

crowmolly > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 11:55

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Maybe move the backflow valve further down, too. That’s 3 feet of stank water that falls back in when the pump stops running. Hell, that displacement might force stank back up through the system as it is.

jkm7680 > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 13:46

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it’s secretly dumping all the shit and piss directly into a crawlspace somewhere 

Takuro Spirit > jkm7680 05/11/2018 at 13:50

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Probably. Then it dries out and the smell goes away?

jkm7680 > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 14:17

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or you just get used to the smell HA HA!

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 15:15

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Maybe then it’s the sump crock with the leftover water from the washer that the pump leaves in the bottom of the sump pit that is stinking after a period of time as it sits. Once you drop in a fresh load of water from the washer, it stirs it up and you get the funky smell.

Also, looking at the setup there, it looks like that check valve is pretty high up and would allow that column of water to backflush into the sump crock after the pump stops. Also adding to the water in the sump to get funky smelling.

You can try sealant, or some of that metal duct tape to seal up any cracks or gaps in the cover.

Plumbobplumbob > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 15:31

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How long is your standpipe? Needs to be not more than 30" nor less than 18".. for proper trap seal to happen still.

EngineerWithTools > punkgoose17 05/11/2018 at 21:47

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I agree with Mr. Goose and will add one more situation: Ejector pump runs, water flows out of the basin, air has to flow in, through the vent. The trap is about as far from the vent on the roof as possible. Add a bunch of turns and maybe questionable connections and there is enough vacuum in the vent pipe to pull water out of the trap. End result? More burping, or even no water in the trap sometimes. Same solution - deeper trap.

jminer > Takuro Spirit 05/11/2018 at 23:19

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The plumbing in my house looked a lot like this when I bought it - built by a crazy person out of found parts. I ripped out the entire drain side and replaced it before we moved in. I wish I had done the same with the supply side - I replaced about 10%, and it doubles the time of any job I have to do now.

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > jkm7680 05/12/2018 at 00:06

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I laughed way too hard at this because IVE SEEN SOME SHIT

Wacko > Takuro Spirit 05/12/2018 at 00:51

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Does it also stink when the softener does a recharge?

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Takuro Spirit 05/12/2018 at 02:06

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From what I’m reading here it appears that your downpipe is catless—in other words, you’re ridin’ dirty

RacinBob > Takuro Spirit 05/12/2018 at 09:59

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I wonder if it has a check valve that is not working. I would think it would have a check valve to prevent back flow.

Does the sump refill after the pump shuts off? If it did and there is a valve maybe built into the pump, the valve is not working and the water is returning and will pull whatever sewer gas with it into the sump.

Do you hear a bubbling sound when it shuts off? That would be the sewer gas. And when you turn on the washer, the drain water displaces it into the room.

You could run a separate vent line to outdoors I suppose.

Just a guess.

RacinBob > Takuro Spirit 05/12/2018 at 14:25

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How does the pump discharge tie into the sanitary system? If the check valve is failed could sewage drain back to the catch tank every time the pump turns off?

Takuro Spirit > Wacko 05/14/2018 at 10:20

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I’m not sure. Probably. It doesn’t seem to do it every time.